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The Community, Shitposting, and Memes

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The good, the bad, and the ugly. 

Pluto.gg's Discord server is currently undergoing remodeling and renovations, as we see a couple of channels disappear. Yet, with such complications in the Discord server at the moment, I have noticed, as well as a group of people, the current debate going on with the new channel "meme-channel," and to my knowledge, was changed to "pluto-landfill" before reverting back to its original name. This debate has been going from warm to hot sporadically throughout the past couple of days. I'm here to not only provide my own input but to also encourage and help y'all out with this dilemma starting to get out of hand. I'll try not to be biased, but do know, some of these facts or suggestions may seem biased due to the fact I have been quite the member and shitposter there...

I'll try to make this quick. I won't include personal matters, because I'm trying to make this as relevant as possible for the overall majority.

I have noticed and agreed with quite a number of people that our current 'guidelines' set in place for the new channel are either really limited, vague, and/or not polished enough. Here's what it says entirely:

Shitpost: Something that appeals to a minority of the population, more akin to inside jokes
Meme: Something widely seen as funny by the majority, everyone at least gets it

Now with the context of the Discord Channel "No Shitposts," you can see the current attempt to help moderate the discord channel to a more pg-13 environment. 

The problems people have been saying, implying, or agreeing with are as follows:

- That is not the definition of a shitpost

- There is no real clear line between a shitpost and meme (it's very subjective)

- It was said this was to stop cropped p*rn, c*m, etc. That is not the definition of a shitpost, which means you're limiting things not related to it.

- Memes also fit the stated definition of a shitpost, in which people's messages have been deleted because of that.

- The "shitposts" are deleted without any sort of explanation. This means people not only can keep posting the "shitposts" not realizing their doing anything wrong, but also puts people in the jail (muted area), meaning they've now had a target on their back for being banned. 

- There are other minor ones, such as the appearance that the current moderator is deleting things that they seem "unfunny," and not that it's cropped p*rn or such.

Now to help add more context to that list, here is a description of some memes that were deleted (with no warning) because it was a "shitpost" 

- A cursed image of an early armored car https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/751284870344474655/762177663615893524/565391ab96b0e459c70391301c4e948e.jpg

- A GIF of a streamer eating a chip and liking it (it's as simple as it sounds) https://gyazo.com/89d449eab81fd9130b237de8383401ea

- An emoji gif of Wierdchamp (I think?) shaking his head [at a previous meme being deleted] (it's also a server emoji, and yes, it's as simple as it sounds)https://tenor.com/view/weirdchamping-weirdchamp-twitch-meme-ryan-gutierrez-gif-17202815

- A funni skeleton dance (he may have deleted bc it was posted a day before, but I currently have no such explanation posted by them due to the lack of any sort of response besides "no shitposts") https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/762173482284220417/762176843527880754/image0.gif

& Sum more (of course). I understand there were a few that should be deleted, obviously, such as two females wearing the bare minimum then being tricked in the video with a man laughing at the viewer. But, if you look at what should be deleted and what was, you'd see at least a 3:1 ratio at harmless/not breaking the rules posts being deleted against ones that could arguably be breaking the rules/Discord's ToS.

Other points:

- The majority of active people in the meme channels are complaining of the moderation actions.

- I am not perfect. I myself admittedly post shitposts and not so pg-13 memes (edgy stuff).

- I am purposefully not saying people's names because I am not a b*tch, throwing people out the bus to be harassed or anything. I'm not that much of a c*nt.

- I have spoken to people about this discussion. Asking/receiving their thoughts and own personal memes and shitposts being deleted.

This problem may seem out of proportion, but I bring this up because this has been boiling up since this past couple of days, and seemingly the matter of my own opinion. Trust me, I would rather do this on Discord but I was told to do it here so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. 

Please note I still love the server, the people, and of course, the memes. If you have any sort of question or complaint (which I suspect are coming anyways) just give me a dm or something idfk at this point. :^)

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Holy shit I can't believe you actually made a forum post lmao. Usually sending people to the forums with a blanket "go post about it on pluto.gg" makes them realize they don't care enough to make a forum post about it so big props for actually going through with it and making one.

I know this might seem like a VERY minor bone to pick, especially from an outsiders perspective, but this is something that has been going on for months and the fact that its still an issue is absolutely bothersome enough to justify a real conversation about it. Since February of this year people have been asking for their memes to stop being sporadically deleted with the entire reason for their removal always being that they were deemed to be a ~shitpost~. This VERY objective metric has allowed for over enforcement and the deletion of a metric fuck ton of memes just because someone does not think they are funny.

I loved the meme channel on the Pluto discord way back when, it was super populated with many users contributing images they found funny and wanted to share with others. Sure not every single image was funny to every single person, but I loved scrolling through and finding those gems that really got to me. If there was a meme that didn't click with me I did not delete it just because I thought it was low quality, looked bad, or I thought maybe other people wouldn't laugh at it. Since then the channel switched from #memes-no-nsfw-plz to the #reeeeeeee-room because a vocal minority was tired of seeing memes they did not find were up to their quality metric. Then a vocal minority decided #reeeeeeee-room was no longer the place for memes (which is true and valid as it should only have existed for gambling and :jubjubb:), so back to the meme channel it was. Unfortunately the memes still were not good enough for a vocal and powerful meme authority minority and as such the shameful #pluto-landfill was the born. It would make sense that you would be able to post all sorts of memes in a landfill, surely there would not be a hidden, objective, barrier to entry that determined if your meme was good enough to not be silently deleted (not for breaking TOS, or server rules, but just because it "looked bad" or "wasn't funny" and was therefore a "shitpost" that needed to be deleted). Unfortunately no, #pluto-landfill was still pillaged by the silent delete, memes were held to unrighteous standards, and judged not for the character of their hearts, but by how long they took to make, and whether or not they were made in MS paint.

As staff I really do want the discord to be a great place! I hope more than anything one day we can be a discord partnered server! I have always held myself to a standard where I can know if discord or even just random Pluto players were seeing who represents our community and how they interact with our members, they would see nice mature interactions and a wholesome community! I know that is not what this is about. This is something that has been happening since February! One skeleton meme or fast gif does not reflect poorly on the community!

The moderation in the meme channel right now is as follows.

  1. If it is cropped porn, otherwise sexually suggestive, ear rape, or against discord TOS, the meme is deleted and the poster is informed that such memes are too edgy to exist in our public discord. This is fine and dandy.
  2. If the meme is any way obscure, not funny enough for a broad audience, somehow irrelevant to surrounding memes, looks like it was made or drawn poorly, or its a gif without an obvious joke or punchline, its HEREBY A SHITPOST and Hound silently deletes it.

Of all the memes shared, a concerning number of memes end up in the second category and let me tell you it is really frustrating and disheartening! I love seeing the meme channel, I like sharing memes to it every now and then, and I hate seeing half the content be removed due to some vague opinions of one person determining it is not of high enough quality to be posted here. Keep in mind again this has been happening for MONTHS over multiple channels and with many people complaining about the vague and rampant usage of the hidden second ruling. Even with channel changes, Hound being told to play a less active role in the meme chats, clear guidelines being established and then ignored in favor of the powerfully vague "shitpost" category, so many good memes get silently deleted for seriously minor reasons!

Please get rid of this "50% of posts are shitposts" and "all shitposts must be deleted" ruling. If the post is sexually suggestive, i.e. cropped porn, or "made you click" videos, remove it and inform the user this is not allowed on our public discord. If the post is very clearly ear rape, remove the post and inform the user ear rape is not the funny content we are looking for in our public discord. If the post is against Discord TOS (pretty hard to do), delete the post, report it to Discord Trust & Safety, and either bad place or ban the account associated as is appropriate. If the only thing wrong is the post is that is not funny to you, looks low effort, you don't get it, seems irrelevant to you, or even if you just think most people won't laugh at it, don't delete it! It's a meme channel! Not everyone thinks every meme is funny, that's the point of these channels! Every time someone comes into our chat and shares something, they are doing it because its something they like or got a kick out of and they want someone else to experience that. Deleting their post for no good reason just feels like a big fuck you to the user. Very rarely does someone join a meme group chat and share a meme with intent to legitimately offend, we are just trying to share funny posts! Please don't rain on the parade just because you feel left out of a joke!

With all that being said, please consider giving post perms back to users who were booted from the channel for disobeying the "no shitposting" rule. I hope you can see how this vague enforcement has lead to a lot of frustration, and I don't see how banning people from the channel for disobeying a vague meritless rule seems fair. I fuckin love Sir Ummemelord's memes and I hope I can see them again, along with many other users who just stopped posting after their messages were deleted without notification when they were truly just trying to share something that made them laugh with their online pals.

I know this is not a serious issue, it's a meme chat after all, but please understand that I am speaking with sincerity and I hope you will all consider some of what I have said.

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Posted (edited)

I don't personally post in the memes channel much, but I agree with the sentiment that not every post that might seem low effort or simply disliked without specific reasoning should be deleted. 

Post should imo be deleted if:

If they contain uncropped or cropped NSFW or NSFL content. 

If they are targeted towards specific people or groups of people. 

If they break the discord TOS. 

If they are politically charged with the explicit intention of creating discord. 

If they explicitly attempt to break up the user base into factions. 

Edited by Nordic
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2 hours ago, ✪ Todd the Turtle Terrorist said:

Nordic you dumdum how are posts supposed to create discord, it already exists and the memes were posted on it.

ಠ_ಠ

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I updated the pinned comment in the memes channel and provided clearer examples of what is and is not a shitpost - as well as describing the definitions used as reference for moderation of the channel.

Thank you for your feedback!

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